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 Post subject: Re: Rank the home media hard copyformats you're experienced
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2019, 03:44 
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signofzeta wrote:
You must be buying the wrong Blu-Rays. All of mine are a massive upgrade over any previous release. You have to screw up a BR pretty bad for it to not look better than a DVD, even if the source is horrible, because the overall bandwidth is so wide you can fit anything you want in there. DVD can’t even keep up with its own resolution, visibly macroblocking as its reach exceeds its grasp.

That thing Substance said about how LD has enough picture data to match any display of the time...DVD doesn’t always do that. Actually, since it has to be stretched to fit, anamorphic or not, it may be correct to say that it never does unless the player does massive after treatment.

IMO concerns for edge enhancement and DNR are massively overblown and based on mostly a few high profile screwups of major movies. There are at least as many bad LDs as bad BRs and I’ve seen soooooo many bad DVD releases it’s disgusting.

BDs of Karate Kid, LA Confidential, and Demolition Man look perfect, but no better than DVDs of Sister My Sister, Mosquito Coast snap case version, Ferris Bueller's Day Off Bueller...Bueller...edition, Robocop criterion, Red Planet, etc ad infinitum. Not one of those did I watch at less than 100" baseline width. Mosquito Coast shows grain but I like that.
I will defend one maligned BD in Gorillas in the Mist, my guess being the EE was overblown by viewers with smaller LCDs which would compact the gorillas' dark fur making the image seem unnatural. The contrast was hyped but that can be corrected by the viewer.
The Untouchables on the other hand could pass for a 3D BD minus the 3D: disgusting.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rank the home media hard copyformats you're experienced
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2019, 04:20 
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gypsy wrote:
Oh I didn't mean to question why you bought them. I bought some too, all dirt cheap as well as a curiosity. I just meant in general, watching movies on such a small screen is unpleasant.



I agree. 65-85” TVs are very affordable now. Some family member bought a 65” for $480. They asked me if it would be too big for their living room. I was um no such thing as TV too big. Buy the largest you can afford. It was thinner, lighter and much high screen to frame ratio than the 46” they bought exactly 10 years ago for $1100 which was a bargain at the time.
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 Post subject: Re: Rank the home media hard copyformats you're experienced
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2019, 08:29 
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I couldn’t disagree more. It nauseates me to be in living room with a billion candle power billboard crammed into it watching...just whatever’s on TV. It’s like having a stereo that only plays at max volume. It’s f***ing great for Iron Maiden but it sucks for the news.

I’m clearly already anxious about being stuck with the in-laws at XMas, can you tell? Last year it was a Naked and Afraid marathon. I nearly puked.

But seriously, how massive is your SUV?
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 Post subject: Re: Rank the home media hard copyformats you're experienced
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2019, 19:04 
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gypsy wrote:
I've never been happy with LD or VHS on modern displays. Thankfully, I've got an HD CRT in reserve.


A little off topic, but I have an LG OLED55E7P 55" TV that laserdiscs look really good on at my typical viewing distance (it's in the bedroom, so maybe 10 feet away?). Even just plugging into the composite, it has a great comb filter. I wish there was a way to capture it. Unfortunately, i don't often watch LDs in the bedroom.

I had DVHS/Dtheater, but sold them all when i got HDVDD (and later bluray) because they were only 1080i and took up more space. I can't remember, could you fast forward past the FBI warnings and previews on Dtheater? If so, then I put DVHS at the #1 spot! I recently threw in a bluray that had 6 mandatory previews before i could watch the movie, it did irritate me immensely.

When i switched from LD to DVD, i only had a 27" crt. The Signal to noise ratio was much better with DVD, and my screen was too small to see the compression, digitization artifacts, and Edge Enhancement. Now all those things are just gross.
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 Post subject: Re: Rank the home media hard copyformats you're experienced
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2019, 19:40 
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confederate wrote:
6. UHD Disc

I have a UHD player and am very impressed with the overall picture quality. This is a huge improvement over Blu Ray and the level of detail encountered in Blade Runner
is just amazing.

Despite having some changed sound effect and ocassional EE, I fully agree with you that Blade Runner got a magnificent UHD-BD. Warner isn't really a favorable studio imo but that disc is a must-own for sure.

I'm gonna be a bit short on this...

1. Blu-Ray - Yeah we all know UHD-BD is better technically speaking but the library of films available on Blu-Ray is really great. For consumer usage it's fairly rare to push the format to its limit, which I feel says a lot. Audio is awesome too. Forced FBI warnings, slow menus and hard region coding sucks tho.

2. Laserdisc - As a cinephile who loves physical media, Laserdisc is a always great to look back at. The only aspect that haven't aged too well is the picture quality in most cases, which becomes a factor when you've converted to modern formats. Apart from that it really has everything I like with a home video format. Awesome covers, magnificent audio and an overall taste of quality. It was made by enthusiasts, for enthusiasts, and while you often encounter mainstream titles you cannot deny that the format had a really strong lineup in its 23 years on the market.

3. DVD - Can be seen as a final way out when you really have no alternatives. Kind of tedious that you can get better quality off modern streaming services but at least you can get plenty of DVDs for peanuts nowadays.

4. UHD-BD - Only placed this low due to the lack of interesting titles on the format. No further comment needed I assume.

5. HD-DVD - On the consumer side it's hard not to like HD-DVD for what it was. Few people remember this but Sony actually subsidized the Blu-Ray manufacturing and patenting for the first few years in order to compete with Toshiba, which was already at an equal price point for the studios. No region lock, no java menus and more supported video modes would have all played a role in the long run. Also there was an HD-50 disc which could certainly compete with Blu-Ray, but I don't think it was ever utilized. That would've made it somewhat future proof (not sure about 3D, Atmos etc however).

6. VHS - I don't think anyone have any really fond memories of this format.

7. Video CD - While perhaps more convenient than VHS, I will probably never stand to watch an entire film on this format again.
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 Post subject: Re: Rank the home media hard copyformats you're experienced
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2019, 06:58 
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1. Laserdisc. The format I always lusted after growing up. The format for adults with jobs. The format for true purists. I tried to buy a player at Cash Converters in 2002, it turned out to be PAL only despite the protests of the staff and wouldn't play my only LD (Macross DYRL Perfect Edition CAV). I argued for about an hour in the store to get my money back. Then girls and clothes and other s**t took over but I always knew I would return. After my second stint in Japan, where I was dirt poor, I returned to Australia in 2009, even though I was unemployed the bank here gave me a $5000 credit card. Like any good citizen should I put it back into the economy and used it for prostitutes, alcohol, sneakers and a Pioneer LD player off ebay..since then I've struggled to keep players working and to build my LD ecosystem. I still love LD, will always love LD and it will be my primary format until my lack of technical skill or money finally forces me to just watch my DVDs : (

2. VHS. Fansubs traded at the Canberra Anime Society, fantastic stuff recorded off SBS TV with cystal clear Aussiefied subtitles. I wish I'd kept most of my VHS collection. Dubbing people's wierd tapes, eg got Video Days that way off my Japanese housemate and briefly got into skating because of it. There is something so pleasing to me about the VHS picture. Back then all I wanted was a S-VHS deck but it was out of reach for the likes of me..of the few VHS tapes I have left some of the ones recorded off SBS-TV look phenomenal, I had really good reception of SBS back then for some reason. Don't think they could have been broadcast in Stereo but I had the only Sony VCR I could afford new, a mono deck so I'll never know but it made good recordings. Before then I had a National VCR that I taped the entire run of Robotech onto. That set got me so many friends in my final two years of high school in '94/'95. Used to lend it out to guys. Other s**t I used to record that I remember, Married with Children and Samurai Pizza Cats :lol:

3. VCD. This format got me content that saved my life in the second half of the '90s on a uni student budget. With my J-Saturn and VCD card, Sydney's Chinatown gave me access to the best of Japanese underground movies, kung fu s**t and p0rn. Thank you VCD. You sucked but helped me so much in of my many times of poverty. Watching Tokyo Eyes on VCD changed my life and made me realise my need to live in Japan and get Japanese girls.

4. DVD. Did me good after a grilfriend gave me a PS2 in '02. I suddenly had access to a lot of wierd s**t and it looked better than VCD. Didn't really seem as elite as LD but some later R2 releases just f***ing rule and are really beautiful and well mastered with the most made of the format. Honestly give me a Kuraray case and Jap mastering and that is as valuable to me as a nice LD release because on my setup it holds up honestly. PCM sound is identical to LD, on my CRT with scaling and with my comb filter and with a good master macroblocking is non existent. Overall LD is still less harsh and more natural which I love. But I'll take a good DVD release anyday.

? Blu Ray. Sucks s**t, this is a good example of how when there are no limitations people fail to excel. Technically should be superlative but what I've seen is terrible and doesn't look good at all. Could be to do with the idiots working in the industry today who think everything should look like CGI for some stupid reason. Blu Ray represents the superficial new world to me and I hate it. It's not pure or desirable to me at all.
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 Post subject: Re: Rank the home media hard copyformats you're experienced
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2019, 16:04 
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Late to this party, but my brief best to worst list:

UHD: I'm a believer at this point. Incredible detail, film like depth, and the best sound quality of any format. Disappointing the format isn't taking off faster, but here's hoping. . .
LD: I just have the most fun with it. The players are well built, the art rocks, the vast library and theatrical sound mixes (along with the fact most people don't know it exists) give it real appeal.
DVD: Still have c. 500 of these, the first format I seriously collected. The ability to have true anamorphic widescreen was a Godsend. DVD got me into home theater in the first place, so I suppose there's nostalgia there like many folks have with LD.
BRD: Blu ray astounded when I first adopted it as it was the first format with lossless (or at least less lossy) sound. But the transfers are hit and miss. Over time, I've increasingly felt like it missed its day - many films were never ported over, many consumers stuck with DVD, and many special features from DVD editions went MIA. Agree that the cases are cheapy-cheap.
VHS: Flabbergasted that people are diving back into that swamp. It never appealed - tapes and players got dirty, movies snapped in two, frustrating to find your favorite scenes, widescreen never looked right, yuck. Still has the biggest library if I were to point out a saving grace.

I do have a stack of CEDs from an ill-informed ebay seller who listed LDs. No player, but I kind of assume they would beat VHS in reliability if nothing else.
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 Post subject: Re: Rank the home media hard copyformats you're experienced
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2019, 16:16 
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spudeus wrote:
I do have a stack of CEDs from an ill-informed ebay seller who listed LDs. No player, but I kind of assume they would beat VHS in reliability if nothing else.


Not by much. Others say its on par with Beta but there is something about it that makes the image lacking.
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 Post subject: Re: Rank the home media hard copyformats you're experienced
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2019, 17:34 
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Interesting to see the wide range of opinions here. I think the BD hate is overblown, where are the two guys that used to fight forper on that lol.
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 Post subject: Re: Rank the home media hard copyformats you're experienced
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2019, 20:26 
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gypsy wrote:
Interesting to see the wide range of opinions here. I think the BD hate is overblown, where are the two guys that used to fight forper on that lol.



I am telling them if LD were still manufactured today they would be getting the same masters with the same orange and teal color timings. Rest assured that they would also implement forced warning and trailers into any new players.
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 Post subject: Re: Rank the home media hard copyformats you're experienced
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2020, 08:13 
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pokefraker wrote:
deadlegion wrote:
That reminds me, does anybody know if there's a complete list of UMD-Video (PSP) releases?
I mean all regional variants with ID.


Wouldn't mind seeing this as well, I only have a couple I snagged from the Bargain bin ages ago, I'm surprised it's not on LDDB, it seemed like a pretty niche format, or at least on par with HD-DVD.


When UMD was somewhat available, someone -- forgot who it was --- started a LDDb-like database for UMD. Didn't want to compete since there was little traction on that format that one database was enough.

It was called UMDDB.net.

First started in 2008 and eventually went offline in 2014 (last snapshot here):
Statistics
Total Discs:    498
Users:    8024
Discs pending:    5
Updates pending:    11
Covers:    165 (33.13%)
IMDb:    367 (73.69%)


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 Post subject: Re: Rank the home media hard copyformats you're experienced
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2020, 08:22 
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Hey Julian since the other website is offline is there any chance we could get UMD's added to the database here?
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 Post subject: Re: Rank the home media hard copyformats you're experienced
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2020, 10:46 
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pokefraker wrote:
Hey Juliaen since the other website is offline is there any chance we could get UMD's added to the database here?


They were quite a few indeed... but who here collects these?
Wouldn't LD or BD be a better option every time?



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 Post subject: Re: Rank the home media hard copyformats you're experienced
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2020, 12:16 
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admin wrote:
pokefraker wrote:
Hey Juliaen since the other website is offline is there any chance we could get UMD's added to the database here?


They were quite a few indeed... but who here collects these?
Wouldn't LD or BD be a better option every time?

Julien


I think I already mentioned one UMD release that isn't available on any other format. It's classed as UMD-Video but it's interactive (like DVD/BD).
Maybe it isn't the only exclusive title but it's the only one I'm aware of.
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 Post subject: Re: Rank the home media hard copyformats you're experienced
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2020, 07:17 
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admin wrote:
pokefraker wrote:
Hey Juliaen since the other website is offline is there any chance we could get UMD's added to the database here?


They were quite a few indeed... but who here collects these?
Wouldn't LD or BD be a better option every time?

Julien


I'd say more people collected UMD than HD-DVD, or DVHS- both formats we currently have on this site.
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 Post subject: Re: Rank the home media hard copyformats you're experienced
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2020, 15:17 
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pokefraker wrote:
I'd say more people collected UMD than HD-DVD, or DVHS- both formats we currently have on this site.


Let's see what everybody's opinion is :-)

Would it be worthwhile to add UMD as a supported format?

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 Post subject: Re: Rank the home media hard copyformats you're experienced
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2020, 19:22 
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rein-o wrote:
Not by much. Others say its on par with Beta but there is something about it that makes the image lacking.


There are a couple major technical issues with CED at the format level (and why I haven't put in the effort to jump in and do a ced-decode ;) )

- The color burst is brought down from ~3.5mhz to ~1.5mhz, so all the chroma dot issues one loves to hate about NTSC LD are magnified greatly.

- It's noisy enough to need 5 IRE of analog noise coring. This is much much higher than LD.

(... that and most CED titles are on DVD/BluRay anyway, there weren't many quirky and industrial titles like LD has.)
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 Post subject: Re: Rank the home media hard copyformats you're experienced
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2020, 14:52 
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gypsy wrote:
Interesting to see the wide range of opinions here. I think the BD hate is overblown, where are the two guys that used to fight forper on that lol.


Yeah, for me it seems like it's a matter of prior expectations. UHD I thought was probably a gimmick but it ended up exceeding my expectations. DVD met them. Blu-ray just seemed to fall short of what I thought I would be getting. LD I had no idea what I was getting into but was pleasantly surprised!
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 Post subject: Re: Rank the home media hard copyformats you're experienced
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2020, 19:15 
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Before I start i should note i havent watched an actual dvd/bluray/uhd bluray in years. I've be ripping/remuxing everything I own on to my personal media server since probably 2011 or so.

I havent had a format i didnt like yet so thats good but from my most loved to the 'just liked' the list is:

1- UDH bluray:
Picture quality is 10/10
- 35mm film scans look amazing in UDH as do modern transfers that had a udh intermediate. Even films mastered in
2k get a nice boost thanks to HDR
- Thankfully DNR is starting to be dialed back or done away with on most of the releases I get of older movies on uhd.
- Lossless sound tracks are on it, as well as PCM in some cases from my understanding
- half assed sound remixes done only for marketing are not as rampant on this as they were on dvd and normal bluray.
And even the movies that do have them usually have the original sound track. And well done remixes on older movies
that rival or best the original are starting to be a thing again

2- Laserdisc :
picture quality (today/ on my udh TV) 6/10 (back in the day/ on my SD crt) 9/10
- mostly faithful film transfers. Looks awesome on my crt over svideo and composite. Looks good enough on my UDH
tvs too. Still the best way to watch some movies, DNR wasnt as over used back then too.
- if the original stereo/mono track wasnt lifted from the film to be used on a laserdisc it was given a proper remaster
not a cheaply done 5.1/7.1/atmos mix for marketing buzzwords.
- Introduced DD 5.1 and DTS surround sound, some times times the same non near field mixes the theaters got.
- on my dual side player I put the disc in and hit play. no menu bs to deal with and i can fast forward beginning ads

3- bluray(1080p):
Picture quality : 8.4/10. tops out at 1080p which is meh for film transfers these days an movies with 4k intermediates
but with so many films being/having been shot in 2k or intermidiated in 2k its good enough. However... DNR really took
off here(in my buying experience) and made a lot of films in to a textureless living wax museum
audio : same formats as udh, everything, so unless they do a dumb and put the DD track from the dvd on it instead of
the losses track they should the sound quality will still be great! unfortunately there are a lot of remixes/upmixes of
sound tracks from (mostly, but not all, older) films done purely for marketing BS, with no sign of the original track on
it. So yeah thats a BIG nope there against those releases. but on newer films its fine and pretty dang great sounding.
BUT on releases that didnt do a crappy remix it so nice here. Ether lossless surround sound, lossless stereo, and on my
gundam dvds straight PCM! Thankfully newer releases are easing off only having a meh remix available

4- vhs(a shocker I know!)
picture quality : (today) big ole 5/10 for well taken care of tapes less for others. (in the day and on my sd crt) 7/10. It
got the job done, got physical media and their players into peoples homes. Also had recording, something that (easily
for the common grandma/grandpa) the others dont and put when we watch the shows in our hands.
audio: on non long play tapes it was ok. Though once hifi became a thing on VHS man it was pretty nice. Close to cd
quality right on my vhs player. Also usually had the stereo/mono track right from the film on it. Honestly on both vhs
and laserdisc their audio quality(if done right) is probably their biggest modern strength.
Put the disc in and hit play. no menu bs to deal with and i can fast forward beginning ads

5 - DVD
picture quality: today eh 7/10, progressive scan players/remxes make a big difference man. in the day/on my crt
8/10 to 10/10 depending on the transfer. Im still impressed by how good some of the transfers are, especially
compared to badly DNR'd blurays and later releases
audio: a REALLY mixed bag, some films got new remixes to market DD 5.1 as a big feature. So the meh af remix for
marketing started here, as did shipping films with just the remix keeping the original mix from our ears from then til
now in a lot of cases. But for the films that already had(or could simulate) a 5.1 track, be it they were made in the
with a 5.1 6 channel magnetix mix on 70mm film 4.2 baby boom 70mm magnetic with the surround mirrored and the
.2 all sent to the .1, even taking the 4.0 stereo matrix and just mirroring the surround like disney did for a some
ghibli movies, and of course the native DD/dts movies. Yeah those sounded great! For the few stereo only releases
on dvd though, they were really done wrong. 192kb bit rate, just disgraceful. Especially when the same sound track
on laserdisc would be pcm, and the dvd had room to do a stereo only track/movie at 448kb like for surround sound.

and thats all ive done so far. Maybe i'll get to try more in the future
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 Post subject: Re: Rank the home media hard copyformats you're experienced
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2020, 01:42 
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spudeus wrote:
gypsy wrote:
Interesting to see the wide range of opinions here. I think the BD hate is overblown, where are the two guys that used to fight forper on that lol.


Yeah, for me it seems like it's a matter of prior expectations. UHD I thought was probably a gimmick but it ended up exceeding my expectations. DVD met them. Blu-ray just seemed to fall short of what I thought I would be getting. LD I had no idea what I was getting into but was pleasantly surprised!


This is interesting. Were you an early adopter for each one of these? From your comments I feel you were introduced to these formats later in their run. When BD arrived in late 2006, it blew DVD out of the water, mind you upscaling DVD players were a rarity then. Later on DVD mastering became greater and upscaling got really good too.
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