The old saying "it only cost 100% more to go first class" or "The price you forget, the quality stays with you". So is more better when buying a LD player?

I have a Pioneer DVL-909 player $300 (works great), Lexicon LDD-1 AC-3/RF Demodulator $229 and about 300 LD titles so all in so far about $1,000. I'm pushing all this through a Denon AVR-X6500H 5.2.4 receiver and Sony VPL-VW295ES 4K projector.

I watch a lot of LDs as I enjoy the format and content if for nothing else the nostalgia factor. I have been wondering if I should be looking for a better quality LD player and if I did what should I buy. That lead me to this post, does more $$ value = better picture? Better sound?

I like the Pioneer brand but am not tied to it, if I did jump up from the DVL909 what player is better and why?

Thanks
Dennis

The DVL-909 is pretty average for Laserdisc playback. Not really bad in any sense but you can find better dedicated players like the CLD-D704, CLD-97 etc. if you search for them. However price becomes a factor and when using a modern setup your choice of video processing (in this case your Denon) and display/projector plays overall a larger role for the final results. That is as long as you're avoiding outright bad players of course.

Higher end Laserdisc player generally offer a cleaner, more stable image. This is especially true for earlier elite models which used more sophisticated analog components to get a lower level of noise in the signal. Later models relied more on digital processing which can turn out a bit sharper but generally speaking the noise level is certainly more apparent on those players.

If you ask me. No!
I have a LaserDisc player that was a floor model.
Does anyone remember McMans from the day's past?
I got from them. I watch the price drop & drop & drop on it.
From $999. To $100. I got it. And it still works.

Yes, I still pick up Laser Disc when I see one I want online.
High price does not mean it will last.
Keep in mind. Things were made better back then.

Kone

I'm not really asking this question from a present day resell perspective. Example;

1998
Pioneer DVL-909
MSRP: $1,275.00
2019 Used $300

1997
Pioneer CLD-99
MSRP: $2,400.00
2019 Used $1.500

1995
Pioneer (Japan) HLD-XO
MSRP 800,000 Yen ($7,692)
2019 Used $3,000 ??

Using the above examples how much more picture or audio quality are you buying for the additional cost?

I'm going with 5%

Pretty much what I was thinking that more is not a huge jump forward.

OK I see. I really don't think that much. Why?
All kinds of things.
Like what are you hooking it up to? A good new 4K TV Are?
What kind of hookups are you using? New 4 K ones are?
What it's hooked up to has a lot to do with things. And the hookups
have a lot to do with things.
My $100 buck 30 + year old LaserDisc player hooked up to my new 55"inch 4K TV.
With good cables. And everything looks great. ( Key Word). Good hook up cables.
Remember. Hookups are 50% of your system. Get good hook up cables.
You will be glad you did.

P.S/ Also remember. You can only do so much with a laserdisc set up.
You are taking something from 25-30 years ago. And putting it with the new
stuff we have now. 4K TV etc.

From DVL-909 / 919 to HLD-X9, I'd say more like 20%.

While I've never owned any X players I have had 919, R7G, S9 and a few others, from those I've only noticed around 5 possibly
if I really was in the business of selling them at the time 15%

But now its hard with such a player still being in the thousands area and no parts.

So will depend on how much someone wants to pay now for 20% I certainly wouldn't today, could have back in the day
but not worth it now for me now.

There is a somewhat scientific way you can calculate minimum difference between certain players. Image science foundation says average human eye can tell errors in color accuracy if the error is above %3. In other words if you have two TVs side by side, when you play the same material on both simultaneously and let’s say one of TVs colors are off by only %2 then they will look identical to you but once the color accuracies are off by %3 and above then you will be able to point them out. Now keep this in mind but also keep in mind we are more sensitive to certain colors and way less sensitive to others so this %3 is an average. On more sensitive colors we will likely pick up errors of %1 where as less sensitive ones perhaps even %7-8 will look the same. Nevertheless %3 is a good base line.

Now, can you tell a difference between a CLd- 50X and 60X? I will say most of you will say 60X models have slightly less noise. I will say then going from 5 series to 6 series is at least %3 improvement. I think a dvl-909 is somewhat on par with a 604. Let’s climb the ladder from here. 60x, 704, 97, s2, x0. I have 5 players of 5 different levels. I don’t think anyone will argue there are easily identifiable differences between these players. 5x %3 = %15 at least per this calculation. Also remember %3 is when you can start to see difference but this difference can be much greater. So I claim HLD-X0 is at least %15 better than a DVL-909 and this above is how I back my claim. %15 may sound small but in my opinion very significant. Especially since the LD medium has very limited resolution where every scan line and detail is needed.

I must also bring up there is a difference between a cinephile and a videophile. A cinephile may find watching some great content on a 360p youtube stream perfectly fine because what matter is the content quality. A videophile would be irritated watching a worthless film on a slightly less than stellar setup. What matters is the best playback possible. You need to find your place between these two axis. I am in this for tech p0rn. My voyage is the journey for the best possible playback out of each format I own. I don’t expect everyone to feel this way.

Thank you substance.
So 15% rather than 5% thank you for correcting me.

Np. %15 is explainable with my above post but beyond is subjective. Whether %15 is justifiable or not is also subjective. I don’t think anyone is incorrect.

Great posts Substance. Really interesting.

So obviously your source is important but what about all the other variables that exist between it and your eye? Video processor and display.

I would argue my low-mid range Sony players to my CRT with it's own very special video processing may give a superior picture to someone with an X0 going to an LCD.

Then my DVDO VP50 adds value to the equation too (ie if your goal is the best possible playback) by being able to exactly tweak the aspect ratio.

Can we agree that that 5-15+% improvement doesn't necessarily just have to come from only the player and source.

Certainly! You definitely need to find the right synergy among your equipment. My analogy treats all other variables equal. HLD-X0 would look %15 or more better than DVL-919 on the same TV. You can experiment with different equipment and improve picture but also potentially make it worse as well. Certain things like color accuracies and noise levels are measurable but other enhancements are matter of taste. You can even argue that some may find inaccurate colors more desirable therefore that is a matter of taste as well. In the end if you are happy with what you have, that’s what matters, not what I tell you is the best

Oh yeah cool, yeah your analysis totally makes sense if all other variables are equal.