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 Post subject: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 01:35 
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Excuse my ignorance, but

1- I am trying to get Jaws on LaserDisc. Is there are a version I should avoid or a version I should get?

2-Which version of LDs has the full widescreen version(like on modern Bluray). Between all the lingo I am afraid I will get the version which puts a wide screen picture into 4:3 box. I am not sure what it is called but on DVD some "widerscreen" movies displayed on modern TVs have blackboxes all around. I am trying to avoid those, I am trying to get the 16:9 or the 4:3 if the prior does not exist.
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 01:41 
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LD is designed for 4:3 screens for the most part, but there are some "squeeze" versions...I'm not sure how many titles are available like that though.
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 01:52 
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deadlegion wrote:
LD is designed for 4:3 screens for the most part, but there are some "squeeze" versions...I'm not sure how many titles are available like that though.


It's a very small number. All squeeze LDs are $$$$$ which is worth noting.

Here is the entire list.
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 03:28 
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The thing you want doesn’t exist; that is an anamorphic Squeeze version of Jaws. Laserdisc is an NTSC/PAL format so it only makes 4:3 video, period. You can matte things off (letter box) or you can optically compress it (Squeeze) but it is always 4:3 latently. This is because wide TVs barely existed before the early 90s and only in Japan.

If there is a full frame version of Jaws (I know very little about this movie) then you could get that and Zoom it, matte it to 16:9, that’s what is normally done. If it’s a letter box version then when you Zoom it you should be left with very little to no black bars. You have to have a decent TV though, a lot of the crap ones don’t have decent zoom modes. (Guideline: if it was over 40” and you payed less than $600 it’s probably crap).
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 04:11 
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A DVDO processor will give you perfect zoom. That's how I deal with letterboxed dvds. Guessing many other stand alone processors would be fine but I've only briefly tinkered with the Lumagen I have and I've only used another processor for game related stuff.
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 21:09 
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As for which version of "Jaws" to get, the "Signature Collection" versions are the best. There "limited edition" version has the film in CAV and includes a paperback book and CD soundtrack. The standard "Signature Collection" replaces Discs 1 & 2 from the CAV version with a single CLV disc and drops the CD and book.
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2020, 00:59 
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Thanks everyone!

signofzeta wrote:
The thing you want doesn’t exist; that is an anamorphic Squeeze version of Jaws. Laserdisc is an NTSC/PAL format so it only makes 4:3 video, period. You can matte things off (letter box) or you can optically compress it (Squeeze) but it is always 4:3 latently. This is because wide TVs barely existed before the early 90s and only in Japan.

If there is a full frame version of Jaws (I know very little about this movie) then you could get that and Zoom it, matte it to 16:9, that’s what is normally done. If it’s a letter box version then when you Zoom it you should be left with very little to no black bars. You have to have a decent TV though, a lot of the crap ones don’t have decent zoom modes. (Guideline: if it was over 40” and you payed less than $600 it’s probably crap).


So you are saying any wide-screen or letterboxed versions of LD(unless squeezed) means I will have black bars all around on a modern wide screen tv, and hence I will be losing image area/space since its basically a 16:9 image implemented WITHIN a 4:3 box?
Unfortunately, zooming doesn't work, as zooming means that picture quality will degrade.

blam1 wrote:
As for which version of "Jaws" to get, the "Signature Collection" versions are the best. There "limited edition" version has the film in CAV and includes a paperback book and CD soundtrack. The standard "Signature Collection" replaces Discs 1 & 2 from the CAV version with a single CLV disc and drops the CD and book.


Hey, are you the owner of blam1.com website? I was reading an article on Signature Collection releases on there yesterday what a coincidence :lol:
I thought the website is a relic from early 2000 that has just stayed up forgotten by the owner.
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2020, 02:04 
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Yes LD (non-squeeze) is presented like VHS, it's 4:3 and widescreen has black bars top and bottom.
If you have a widescreen tv (modern, a wide crt or whatever) the tv will have black bars at the sides as well but those are not present in the image.
If you're using a modern tv it's likely you'll be losing image quality anyway, regardless of zoom, because of the tv itself...assuming you're running the LD player straight to the tv.
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2020, 04:23 
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rch928 wrote:
Thanks everyone!

signofzeta wrote:
The thing you want doesn’t exist; that is an anamorphic Squeeze version of Jaws. Laserdisc is an NTSC/PAL format so it only makes 4:3 video, period. You can matte things off (letter box) or you can optically compress it (Squeeze) but it is always 4:3 latently. This is because wide TVs barely existed before the early 90s and only in Japan.

If there is a full frame version of Jaws (I know very little about this movie) then you could get that and Zoom it, matte it to 16:9, that’s what is normally done. If it’s a letter box version then when you Zoom it you should be left with very little to no black bars. You have to have a decent TV though, a lot of the crap ones don’t have decent zoom modes. (Guideline: if it was over 40” and you payed less than $600 it’s probably crap).


So you are saying any wide-screen or letterboxed versions of LD(unless squeezed) means I will have black bars all around on a modern wide screen tv, and hence I will be losing image area/space since its basically a 16:9 image implemented WITHIN a 4:3 box?
Unfortunately, zooming doesn't work, as zooming means that picture quality will degrade.

blam1 wrote:
As for which version of "Jaws" to get, the "Signature Collection" versions are the best. There "limited edition" version has the film in CAV and includes a paperback book and CD soundtrack. The standard "Signature Collection" replaces Discs 1 & 2 from the CAV version with a single CLV disc and drops the CD and book.


Hey, are you the owner of blam1.com website? I was reading an article on Signature Collection releases on there yesterday what a coincidence :lol:
I thought the website is a relic from early 2000 that has just stayed up forgotten by the owner.



Well, zooming is an option for every member of this forum not running a square CRT. Maybe give it a shot. It’s your only choice with a wide display. Squares don’t fit in rectangular boxes and vice versa. LD was invented in 1978 to run on 19” TVs. It does 450 lines, interlaced even. You won’t lose any quality of your TV if decent.

Take some paper. Now cut out a 16:9 rectangle and a 4:3 rectangle and try to achieve what it is your asking of your TV. You have to either have black bars somewhere or you have to crop something out. Those are the only choices that exist in our physical universe.

There has to be a Blu-ray that completely decimated the LD and probably costs less. If you want the best picture then get that. LD has flaws!
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2020, 06:48 
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rch928 wrote:

So you are saying any wide-screen or letterboxed versions of LD(unless squeezed) means I will have black bars all around on a modern wide screen tv, and hence I will be losing image area/space since its basically a 16:9 image implemented WITHIN a 4:3 box?
Unfortunately, zooming doesn't work, as zooming means that picture quality will degrade.

1:85 fills 16:9, 2:35 fills 21:9.
"Stretch" is the option you want, not "zoom".
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2020, 08:37 
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I think this explains it better if you haven't read it already.
https://www.lddb.com/help_ratio.php
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2020, 15:04 
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rch928 wrote:
Thanks everyone!

signofzeta wrote:
The thing you want doesn’t exist; that is an anamorphic Squeeze version of Jaws. Laserdisc is an NTSC/PAL format so it only makes 4:3 video, period. You can matte things off (letter box) or you can optically compress it (Squeeze) but it is always 4:3 latently. This is because wide TVs barely existed before the early 90s and only in Japan.

If there is a full frame version of Jaws (I know very little about this movie) then you could get that and Zoom it, matte it to 16:9, that’s what is normally done. If it’s a letter box version then when you Zoom it you should be left with very little to no black bars. You have to have a decent TV though, a lot of the crap ones don’t have decent zoom modes. (Guideline: if it was over 40” and you payed less than $600 it’s probably crap).


So you are saying any wide-screen or letterboxed versions of LD(unless squeezed) means I will have black bars all around on a modern wide screen tv, and hence I will be losing image area/space since its basically a 16:9 image implemented WITHIN a 4:3 box?
Unfortunately, zooming doesn't work, as zooming means that picture quality will degrade.

blam1 wrote:
As for which version of "Jaws" to get, the "Signature Collection" versions are the best. There "limited edition" version has the film in CAV and includes a paperback book and CD soundtrack. The standard "Signature Collection" replaces Discs 1 & 2 from the CAV version with a single CLV disc and drops the CD and book.


Hey, are you the owner of blam1.com website? I was reading an article on Signature Collection releases on there yesterday what a coincidence :lol:
I thought the website is a relic from early 2000 that has just stayed up forgotten by the owner.

Frankly if you want to maximise image quality this isn't the hobby for you, just buy it on Blu-ray. There is a reason why nobody makes new LaserDiscs any more after all! Most of us are here because we are interested in the format in some way, either due to the rare content, or the impressive special edition sets, or simply for the interest of seeing an old format in action.

For most films on LD you had two options. Either a pan and scan (or open matte if you're lucky) version that displays the film in 4:3 by cutting off part of the picture (or adding additional picture for open matte) compared to the cinematic version, or a letterbox version that has hard-coded black bars on the top and bottom of the screen. On a modern TV you can zoom in on the latter. Anamorphic LDs were rare simply because most people had 4:3 screens and there was no way to display the image correctly on the vast majority of 4:3 tellies (the most notable exception being certain Sony models which could add letterboxing for you). DVD players fixed this by having the ability to add letterboxing in the DVD player itself but Laserdisc players weren't designed for this as nobody foresaw widescreen TV in 1978.

So with this newfound knowledge in mind, there are actually quite a few reasons you might be interested in getting Jaws on LD. The limited edition boxset as described above is one, and this is fairly typical for the high end of LD collector's boxsets once LD finally found its niche with cinephiles in the late 80s and through the 90s (until DVD killed it). The other interesting Jaws release is that the first ever LaserDisc (or rather, DiscoVision) release way back in the 1970s was the CAV version of Jaws. This of course is pan and scan (it predated the popularity of letterbox releases) and not a great quality transfer so you should only buy this if you are interested in the historical aspect.
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2020, 16:57 
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snipesbackhand wrote:
"Stretch" is the option you want, not "zoom".


This is true I just lazily used zoom since that was the term being used. Can most TVs do this now? A big part of me getting my first DVDO was that the tvs I had could not.
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2020, 17:12 
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If you stretch a 4:3 image (which is actually 16:9 or whatever with bars top and bottom) horizontally to fill a 16:9 screen the AR will be wrong. You're just stretching things sideways.
People were doing that crap all the time in the early days of widescreen tv's, they'd stretch everything (4:3 broadcasts and DVD, also VHS) to fill the screen :roll:
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2020, 17:24 
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deadlegion wrote:
If you stretch a 4:3 image (which is actually 16:9 or whatever with bars top and bottom) horizontally to fill a 16:9 screen the AR will be wrong. You're just stretching things sideways.
People were doing that crap all the time in the early days of widescreen tv's, they'd stretch everything (4:3 broadcasts and DVD, also VHS) to fill the screen :roll:


Yeah I don't do that of course. I discussed it earlier but I preserve aspect ratio and stretch 1:1 on letterboxed dvds.
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2020, 17:37 
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Stretching 1:1 on most TVs is called zooming :)
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2020, 17:45 
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The controls are very lacking, at least on the tvs I have. Even some older higher end tvs. I like being able to fine tune it. Especially for when I still need to fit out of picture subtitles.
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2020, 18:05 
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Whatever your term is you really want to zoom, stretching will still have black bars on the top and bottom of a 16x9 image.
Zooming will remove black on tops and sides IF your image is correctly 16x9

If a 2.35 or anything larger than 16x9 will still have smaller black bars on the top and bottom.
Personally for me I can't see keeping LDs over DVDs of common titles like Jaws.

Jaws is a title that will be released on every format made from now to the end of format time.

LD, DVD even Bluray the only reason to collect and keep these formats are for the obscure or rare stuff you won't get on every format or
if its cheaper on one format than another as one day it will come out on a newer format sooner than later.

I just picked up a roku again, wow I can't believe stuff like Golion is on crunchy roll for free with commercials but the DVD sells for stupid money on ebay.
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2020, 20:04 
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muzer wrote:
Stretching 1:1 on most TVs is called zooming :)


“Stretch” means to optically distort. To pull a 4:3 wide like taffy. Anamorphic. Squeeze. On LD this is never correct unless it’s a Squeeze release.

“Zoom” means to bring the image closer with no distortion, like a zoom lens. Sometimes crap TVs lack this option but good ones always have it. I’m %99 sure, for example, that every wide Sony ever made has a proper zoom.

The difference is night and day. One makes the moon into an oval and everyone fat, the other is correct.
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2020, 23:35 
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rch928 wrote:
Thanks everyone!

blam1 wrote:
As for which version of "Jaws" to get, the "Signature Collection" versions are the best. There "limited edition" version has the film in CAV and includes a paperback book and CD soundtrack. The standard "Signature Collection" replaces Discs 1 & 2 from the CAV version with a single CLV disc and drops the CD and book.


Hey, are you the owner of blam1.com website? I was reading an article on Signature Collection releases on there yesterday what a coincidence :lol:
I thought the website is a relic from early 2000 that has just stayed up forgotten by the owner.


Guilty as charged. Back in the day, Universal allowed me to build the site for LaserDisc. I've kept it up, but I did pull down all of the DVD stuff years ago. I keep meaning to add the entirety of the Universal LD catalog, but never seem to find the time.
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