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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2020, 23:55 
Jedi Knight
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I was half way through What We Do In the Shadows (TV) and really getting into it when it got yanked from Hulu.

Streaming kinda sucks...often I buy a disc and don’t have time to watch it for a year. That kind of thing doesn’t work well with Netflix or Hulu where the selection is constantly changing and the list of what they have now is way smaller than what they used to have. They’re dropping billions on original programs that bomb and meanwhile I’d just like for my kid to be able to check out Knight Rider without actually buying the POS. The streaming companies are all in this huge arms race that didn’t even exist when I first subscribed to them and now they use their revenues to generate almost exclusively content I never watch.

Classic TV is starting to become an eBay only thing. Stores hardly carry DVD anymore but it’s not like you can reliably steam stuff like Happy Days or All in the Family. My cable company decided to move TCM up to a tier to where I’ll never pay for it and the “classics” sections on these streaming services sometimes have only about a dozen movies and some of them are like Ghostbusters or Jaws so you know they aren’t going to have the complete Busby Berkeley or a bunch of silents.


Last edited by signofzeta on 11 Feb 2020, 00:19, edited 1 time in total. _________________
All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.

https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2020, 13:25 
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If you're watching something that was shot on tape in the first place, LD probably is the best way to watch it. Some of the oldschool computer animation shorts I've watched are obviously rendered onto tape and they look great.
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2020, 00:23 
Jedi Knight
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What year? Usually they went from computer to film to tape up through at least the first Toy Story. Since shooting to tape frame by frame...sucks (not impossible) normally you could only go straight to tape if the animation would actually run in real time. Normally that’s avoided because anything you can run in real time you can make even better if you render it more slowly than that.

These kinds of animations being rendered to film is what makes some of them look amazing.
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All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.

https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2020, 18:14 
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signofzeta wrote:
What year? Usually they went from computer to film to tape up through at least the first Toy Story. Since shooting to tape frame by frame...sucks (not impossible) normally you could only go straight to tape if the animation would actually run in real time. Normally that’s avoided because anything you can run in real time you can make even better if you render it more slowly than that.

Now that I wouldn't know anything about. With compilations it's much more noticeable since you have a mix of both sources and you have a noticeable difference in the framerate.
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 01 Mar 2021, 07:35 
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Sorry, I didn't want to start a new thread over this. I noticed some of my LDs look better than others. Some look like old VHS tapes, you know when you tell someone remember VHS and thats the picture that comes into mind. Then others are so good they might as well be DVD. I have never noticed this on any other medium.

Is there a difference in transfer quality between films? Is there a way or label to know the type of transfer? does this have to do with CLV and CAD?
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 01 Mar 2021, 08:07 
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rch928 wrote:
Sorry, I didn't want to start a new thread over this. I noticed some of my LDs look better than others. Some look like old VHS tapes, you know when you tell someone remember VHS and thats the picture that comes into mind. Then others are so good they might as well be DVD. I have never noticed this on any other medium.

Is there a difference in transfer quality between films? Is there a way or label to know the type of transfer? does this have to do with CLV and CAD?

Yes, transfer quality will vary by title. Nothing to do with CLV and CAV when the difference is that dramatic. The quality of any format is a ceiling, not a floor. If you use a low-quality source with a high-quality format, the result will be a low quality. You could have a UHD-BD that looked like a VHS tape if that's what the video you wrote to it already looked like.

The only label I can think to look for would be THX, which should mean the picture was digitally remastered from a film source, but that's not most titles. You're best off looking for reviews and opinions on a given disc.
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 01 Mar 2021, 17:02 
Jedi Master
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I just watched an anime disc last night that was a poor master but not the quality of VHS, I've seen a lot of discs and NEVER saw any
with the quality of VHS other than a bootleg I own.

If the master was a 2 inch tape then it will look like tape but will never be the shity quality of VHS.
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2021, 18:45 
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i assumed there was a standard they had all to comply with to ensure that quality, i am talking about all formats

rein-o wrote:
I just watched an anime disc last night that was a poor master but not the quality of VHS, I've seen a lot of discs and NEVER saw any
with the quality of VHS other than a bootleg I own.

If the master was a 2 inch tape then it will look like tape but will never be the shity quality of VHS.


who could do a bootlegged laserdisc? nothing can replicate those except factories unlike dvds and vhs tapes
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2021, 02:39 
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rch928 wrote:
Is there a difference in transfer quality between films? Is there a way or label to know the type of transfer? does this have to do with CLV and CAD?


There can be a huge difference. I've seen it in all formats. "The Abyss" on DVD is crap (LD is better, and no bluray exists). The first "the fifth element" on bluray, was crap. Those are 2 i remember for certain, but there are many more.

Also, from earlier in this thread, this statement was made:

Quote:
420 scan lines of LD is somewhat equivalent to 420x480



Technically, the term: "scan lines" refers to the vertical resolution, and is always 480 in NTSC. Secondly, the "420" is TVL, which _is not_ equivalent to the digital style Cartesian coordinate system. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_lines
Quote:
TVL is defined as the maximum number of alternating light and dark vertical lines that can be resolved per picture height.[3] A resolution of 400 TVL means that 200 distinct dark vertical lines and 200 distinct white vertical lines can be counted over a horizontal span equal to the height of the picture. For example, on 4 by 3 inches (10.2 cm × 7.6 cm) monitor with 400 TVL, 200 vertical dark lines can be counted over 3 inches


So that's 420*1.3333333 for 560x480

https://www.burglaryalarmsystem.com/tec ... ution.html
(There's a table a ways down the page that has 420tvl = 560pixels)

I wanted to post this, because it is a common misconception when people come from the digital way of thinking, back to the analog. And i have no reason why they decided to do it this way in the first place.
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2021, 16:38 
Jedi Master
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rch928 wrote:
i assumed there was a standard they had all to comply with to ensure that quality, i am talking about all formats


Not that I know of, even today is there really a standard????

Well they did try with THX and some of the early stuff kept to a standard but there were always misses as everything has.
Look at Criterion, I know of one LD and heard of a few DVD that they missed on.
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2021, 11:07 
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this sucks for the common consumer since he buys media assuming it is with a specific standard of quality. I remember viewing one title early on dvd and thinking "Whats different here over dvd?"

must be one of those bad transfers.
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 Post subject: Re: A couple of noob questions
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2021, 00:39 
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rch928 wrote:
this sucks for the common consumer since he buys media assuming it is with a specific standard of quality. I remember viewing one title early on dvd and thinking "Whats different here over dvd?"

must be one of those bad transfers.


yeah. "The Fifth Element" was a favorite movie for me, for a long time. I ordered the bluray right away and was very disappointed.

I'm old enough to have bought my first LD player new in the store. At the time, i had a high end 27" TV. However, i now know that PQ from one LD player to another, varies a lot (i didn't really know that back then). PQ from one DVD player to another, doesn't vary that much. My first LD player was mid grade at best. So when I watched "The Abyss" on LD on my 27" TV, and then "The Abyss" DVD on my TV, in that setup, the DVD looked better. A lot better. The experience was pretty even across the board and my LD player and LDs went into the basement.

That was back in the latter half of the 90s. Fast forward about 20 years, and i have a 120" projection setup. I put in "The Abyss" DVD and it looks horrible. It's a non-anamorphic 2.35:1 title to start. It has severe edge enhancement, which is one of the things that made it "pop" on my 27" TV, but at 120" it just looks like halos around everything. It also suffers from some pretty bad compression artifacts, partly due to grainy film, partly due to bad mastering i think.

So now i have a much better LD player. And some broadcast grade composite decoders and noise reduction HW. The LD looks better on my current setup.

Edge enhancement was something they did on DVDs to make them look better on small screens. And it worked. The problem now, is no one uses small screens anymore!
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