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 Post subject: Re: Laserdiscs that are superior to DVD/BLURAY
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2020, 13:12 
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I'll stick my neck out and suggest that the DTS release of Hell Freezes Over (The Eagles) LD is superior in every way to the DVD version of which I own both. As good as the audio is on the DVD version the LD clearly betters it, whilst on the Video side the image is very similar on both except the DVD has a few compression artefacts at times which are naturally completely absent on the LD whilst colour and clarity are quite comparable, at least in my experience.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdiscs that are superior to DVD/BLURAY
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2020, 19:35 
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While I feel you can get a great picture without a lot of the add ons I agree with everything else odotb says.

I wonder if I never had LD would I actually have picked it up????
For me its the Silent films and Anime that keep me going for about 80% of the collection.
Oh and Good, the Bad and the Ugly, The (1966) [ML101739] with original Italian titles.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdiscs that are superior to DVD/BLURAY
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2020, 22:48 
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"just for star wars", i'd probably have to agree, not worth it... (thx 1138 is also only to be found in original form on LD AFAIK, "the abyss" is best on LD, but it will soon be out on bluray, Cameron just did a 4k scan of it).

The last time i watched star wars, i watched "the silver screen edition" which is an amateur scanned 35mm film print. It's not "great", but i prefer it to the (de)specialized versions. That may be because of my age though. Star Wars looked like a "film" in the theater, and the "silver screen edition" holds truer to that. The (de)specialized version is mostly made up from the bluray, iirc. The bluray was heavily processed, and looks more like the prequel style of movie making to me. Both of them have the annoying effect of turning the film grain into tiny little distracting squares though, which is one thing the LD will not. Those are most annoying on a theater size screen though.

I've said this before in other threads, the best PQ i can get with LD is "composite straight into my LG OLED TV", which is maybe 3 years old? No processors needed. It looks like the newer LG OLEDs don't have composite anymore though, so i may have been lucky enough to score this right before they stopped offering it.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdiscs that are superior to DVD/BLURAY
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2020, 01:16 
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Currently the best scans of Star Wars and Return of the Jedi are 4k from 35mm source.
There should be versions with DNR and without it as well (possibly even a minimal DNR variant).

Empire is the one that is harder to find, I'm not even sure there is a nice 4k scan of it atm (well, maybe there is but it's probably buried away on the likes of myspleen or whatever).
I know there is a 1080p grindhouse version and also a cleaned up (sort of) version based on that scan but the quality isn't great.


Yeah many people talk about how great the despecialized versions are but the source material used is a mix of stuff including BD, with a lot of trickery to make non BD parts look closer to the rest of it. They aren't as great as the hype imo.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdiscs that are superior to DVD/BLURAY
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2020, 01:57 
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Empire grindhouse is definitely watchable especially if you saw some films like that back in the 90's in cheap cinemas.
I remember watching Akira like that, all scratched up etc :lol:

I think the "cleaned up" version of Empire grindhouse mainly worried about some colour correction and not the scratches, but maybe I'm wrong. I think my copy is the original gritty scan (TN1 iirc).
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdiscs that are superior to DVD/BLURAY
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2020, 04:00 
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firehorse_44 wrote:
Will play devils advocate here.....


When i first read this, i thought you meant, you'd play "Devil's Advocate" the movie, on laserdisc! lol. I was thinking you mentioned it, because the LD is the only version with the original wall art sculpture thing (again, iirc). So in a sense, that's another movie that has the original that wasn't ever released on dvd or bluray (but it is just a sculpture on the wall in the back of the guy's office).
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdiscs that are superior to DVD/BLURAY
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2020, 21:53 
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A lot of early DVD's were rushed to market and are full screen with stereo sound and cheap transfers.

Few LD's can compare to later DVD's and Blurays, but i'd argue that the late 90's LD's, when they were a premium product, compare VERY favorably and are sometimes superior to early DVD pressings that were rushed to market.

I'd take a widescreen LD with AC3 over a fullscreen DVD in stereo/pro-logic ANY day.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdiscs that are superior to DVD/BLURAY
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2020, 18:14 
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signofzeta wrote:
My advice is to close your browser and never come back. Star Wars on LD isn’t as magical as people think it is. Just pirate some perfect cut and be done with it.


I have multiple SW releases on LD (the cost of acquiring lots) and the "bootleg" theater cut HD stuff. Without a doubt, the bootleg is leagues better. The old Japanese releases feel like you are in a dingy old theater which, is perfect if that's what you are after. Personally I like both and would not sell my Japanese LDs.

I would agree with the sentiment of don't come into LD just for Star Wars.

I also back what shopkins is saying. LD is best when it's cheap. I acquired a player and 95 LD for $175 as well as two players (including an S1) and about 200 LD for $200. Then a couple other medium purchases/trades for multiple LD. That's the way you want to do it. If you can get deals like that, I think it's worth it provided you have the space and don't mind LD pq. The movies should be cheap because outside of extremely niche stuff these movies are available on BD and are much better on that format.

rick_dangerous wrote:
A lot of early DVD's were rushed to market and are full screen with stereo sound and cheap transfers.

Few LD's can compare to later DVD's and Blurays, but i'd argue that the late 90's LD's, when they were a premium product, compare VERY favorably and are sometimes superior to early DVD pressings that were rushed to market.

I'd take a widescreen LD with AC3 over a fullscreen DVD in stereo/pro-logic ANY day.


Very well stated. Early DVD is often trash. Even Criterion re-issued stuff. Late DVD is often quite good especially if you aren't watching on that big of a screen.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdiscs that are superior to DVD/BLURAY
PostPosted: 23 Aug 2020, 22:06 
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Content created on NTSC video should be superior on LD most times, as LD exceeds even the huge reel to reel Ampex VTR used in broadcast back in the day in quality for composite video. Everything else is taking a form of analog compression, NTSC, and compressing it again. Old music videos, that sort of thing that were never on film and titles for which only an NTSC master survives.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdiscs that are superior to DVD/BLURAY
PostPosted: 24 Aug 2020, 14:03 
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After a whole year of study and research i can say
that DVD is superior to VCD and LD superior to VHS;
Is DVD superior to LD?... is an apple superior to an orange?
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdiscs that are superior to DVD/BLURAY
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2020, 21:31 
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I also DO NOT collect Laserdisc for Star Wars (at all) I mean i have them, but just from getting them with lots.

Out of curiousity when it comes to Star Wars, what is the LD release that people generally go for? The 1995 Widscreen release, with the color banners at the top? My friend had these in high-school (on VHS of course) and we watched them a bunch. They are dolby pro logic, but the picture is probably just as good and obviously they are original.

I think anything later (the 1997 re-releases) are the new versions.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdiscs that are superior to DVD/BLURAY
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2020, 00:20 
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rick_dangerous wrote:
I also DO NOT collect Laserdisc for Star Wars (at all) I mean i have them, but just from getting them with lots.

Out of curiousity when it comes to Star Wars, what is the LD release that people generally go for? The 1995 Widscreen release, with the color banners at the top? My friend had these in high-school (on VHS of course) and we watched them a bunch. They are dolby pro logic, but the picture is probably just as good and obviously they are original.

I think anything later (the 1997 re-releases) are the new versions.


Lucas always had a habit of playing with these films.
Eg: It's impossible to get the first movie as original theatrical version on any home media, even the very first VHS/LD versions aren't original. If you want to own an original copy of that film you will need to purchase an early 35mm print.

If by "new versions" you mean special editions, there are even early versions of those and then later ones.

Besides that, I think most people accept the "faces" versions as being good, they aren't really expensive or hard to find.
Only issue I have with them is the US art isn't good enough. Japanese is much better.

Personally I've just picked up as many different versions (any format) as I can without spending much, the older LD releases are bad transfers but the different covers make up for that imo.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdiscs that are superior to DVD/BLURAY
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2020, 00:24 
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rick_dangerous wrote:
Out of curiousity when it comes to Star Wars, what is the LD release that people generally go for? The 1995 Widscreen release, with the color banners at the top? My friend had these in high-school (on VHS of course) and we watched them a bunch. They are dolby pro logic, but the picture is probably just as good and obviously they are original.

I got the Japanese Special Collection releases because they offered something significantly different from the Limited Edition DVDs I already had.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdiscs that are superior to DVD/BLURAY
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2020, 01:25 
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deadlegion wrote:
Besides that, I think most people accept the "faces" versions as being good, they aren't really expensive or hard to find.


Trust me, the faces versions are _not_ good. They may be "good" in the sense that they are close to later theatrical (there were multiple theatrical releases, the very first didn't even say "EPISODE IV"). They are not good from a visual standpoint. They are from the same master as the definitive edition (iirc), but with heavy DNR. If the definitive is too much $$$, then go back to the Fox Widescreen ones, but just make sure to get the technidisc pressing of the first film.

There is a rumor that the Kurraray pressed faces are superntsc. They aren't.

For the sake of reference, i have:
The japanese special collection
the technisdisc fox widescreen new hope
the faces kurraray pressed
the difinitive japanese set
the japanese special collectors set (japanese faces bundled together)
The french THX trilogy box set in PAL with english audio and out of picture french subtitles.
The 97 special edition (this one IS superntsc)

I also have a SuperNTSC decoder, a broadcast model CFDN-something something.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdiscs that are superior to DVD/BLURAY
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2020, 01:38 
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Well the question was what is the LD release that people generally go for?
I think what I said is generally accurate, people usually go for the faces versions as they're easy to find and aren't expensive. I probably shouldn't have used the word good at all, but whatever.
I don't like the US art though it just looks really simple imo.

As you said trying to find the actual best LD versions becomes a quest of different pressings and also a matter of opinion/preference (earliest theatrical versions, best transfers of pre-SE etc).
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdiscs that are superior to DVD/BLURAY
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2020, 16:34 
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Sounds very complicated......

I'm just going to go for the Faces release (1995.)

I can't imagine they would look worse than the Fox Widescreen release from the early 90s.

How can i tell what pressing it is? May as well look for the kurraray pressed ones if they are the better face releases.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdiscs that are superior to DVD/BLURAY
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2020, 17:08 
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deadlegion wrote:
Well the question was what is the LD release that people generally go for?
I think what I said is generally accurate, people usually go for the faces versions as they're easy to find and aren't expensive. I probably shouldn't have used the word good at all, but whatever.
I don't like the US art though it just looks really simple imo.

As you said trying to find the actual best LD versions becomes a quest of different pressings and also a matter of opinion/preference (earliest theatrical versions, best transfers of pre-SE etc).

I find the faces releases particularly redundant since the DVDs use the same transfer but enjoy the benefit of being in component video rather than composite, and feature the original opening scroll for the first film that isn't on the LD, and I think I'd rather have those than the bump in sound quality offered by PCM vs lossy DD. How many people watching these can tell the difference anyway?

The biggest benefit of the DVD versions of course is the accessibility since a DVD will play on just about anything with an optical drive these days, so with much better choices out there to watch them both legally (the DVDs) and illegally (the fan projects, but finding them can be quite a hassle), anybody who's getting into laserdisc just to watch Star Wars now is just being foolish.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdiscs that are superior to DVD/BLURAY
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2020, 17:17 
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rick_dangerous wrote:
How can i tell what pressing it is? May as well look for the kurraray pressed ones if they are the better face releases.


Unfortunately, for the technidisc fox pressing, only by the mint marks on the actual discs. Look up the titles in lddb and it says which mint marks are which.

you should read this thread wrt faces: https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=5682
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdiscs that are superior to DVD/BLURAY
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2020, 17:36 
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Okay so i got the Technidisk pressing of the Fox Widscreen editions of A New Hope (1992, Made in USA), and the next two.

How do you tell what are the Kurrkuray pressing of Faces Edition?
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdiscs that are superior to DVD/BLURAY
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2020, 21:32 
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Definitive Edition Box Set seems to be the way most people go. Japanese box set will likely be rot free but costs an arm and a leg.

I'm happy enough with what I have that I don't really want to be spending more on Star Wars.


Last edited by gypsy on 26 Aug 2020, 21:47, edited 1 time in total. _________________
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