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 Post subject: Re: Why are you still watching LDs?
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2021, 09:09 
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Someone on YouTube put out a video on the topic:



Which mostly i agree with and others muh.

LaserDisc,
Thats why for me.
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 Post subject: Re: Why are you still watching LDs?
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2021, 15:48 
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gypsy wrote:
takeshi666 wrote:
substance wrote:
but who watches DVDs nowadays anyway?

Just like there is a lot of content that has not left the realm of Laserdisc, there is a lot of content that has not left the realm of DVD. Plus all of the reasons listed above; uncut versions, original sound mixes, etc.


Yeah DVD being essentially the successor to VHS in terms being THE format means there is just so much on it. Bluray never really even surpassed it and 4K is a niche format.

I just realized the way I phrased myself made the whole post sound like I was talking about DVD, but I really only referred to DVD with the opening statement; the sheer quantity of content that will most likely never be released on a better format. There may have been niche content on LD too, but it wasn't even close to the level of niche you could find on VHS.

You think your General Motors laserdiscs are niche? They got nothing on Tree Stand Safety!

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 Post subject: Re: Why are you still watching LDs?
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2021, 17:16 
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ldfan wrote:
rch928 wrote:
This format is way inferior in quality, expensive, inconvenient, the players are breaking apart, the players don't have cables compatible with some of the newer TVs, buying movies is only available via online stores, Not 1 single new release in 2 decades, and it weight and size make it expensive to ship and store. Yet, here we are.


That’s why I always tell people who are considering getting into the hobby to just not do it. It just makes no sense in light of today's technology. ;)

However, you can look @ it from the perspective of a classic car collector. The cars of the past are inefficient, big polluters, have safety systems way outdated, always have concerns in respect to obtaining spare parts to keep them going, etc. And yet, some people still want to deal with it.

So a better question for you would be, "why do you want to get into it?" You wouldn't post a question like this unless you really see something in it for you (well... I guess you did answer the question in paragraph 2 :) ).


I agree. I wouldn’t recommend anyone “get into” LD in the modern era. The fact that we get constant new users to the forum who are mostly new users to LD baffles me. Without a real personal relationship with the format back when it was THE format, which it absolutely was for many years, “getting into LD” seems unwise or frankly an outright pointless waste of money that destroys hundreds of good players by putting them through the meat grinder of shipping. I truly wish Techmoan would openly request that people not try to do what he’s doing, at least with LD. For the good of the scene you aren’t currently in, please don’t try this at home.

Some dude who’s bored and half as smart as he thinks he is (probably in IT) decides on a whim to “check out” Laserdisc. Great. Your first player arrived broken. You start an account here to complain about it. You may or may not keep trying...to me I translate that to “Some guy got bored and smashed a LD player for fun.” because to people like me who just want to keep watching decades old collections that’s the real end result of such a dumb temporary fling. These Raspberry Pi dweebs aren’t going to be spinning LDs in ten years in any scenario, but some people will...if a bunch of iPhone repairmen/AR15 enthusiasts haven’t force fed all the players to DHL that is.
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 Post subject: Re: Why are you still watching LDs?
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2021, 18:00 
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signofzeta wrote:
Some dude who’s bored and half as smart as he thinks he is (probably in IT) decides on a whim to “check out” Laserdisc. Great. Your first player arrived broken. You start an account here to complain about it. You may or may not keep trying...to me I translate that to “Some guy got bored and smashed a LD player for fun.” because to people like me who just want to keep watching decades old collections that’s the real end result of such a dumb temporary fling. These Raspberry Pi dweebs aren’t going to be spinning LDs in ten years in any scenario, but some people will...if a bunch of iPhone repairmen/AR15 enthusiasts haven’t force fed all the players to DHL that is.


I just love when that happens. All the advice is "buy within driving distance" and then said advice is ignored and they keep buying more players to arrive broken.
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 Post subject: Re: Why are you still watching LDs?
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2021, 18:24 
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"I never liked LD because every player I ever had arrived broken." isn't something I've ever heard but it is something I will eventually hear.

Back in the day I'd assume less than %10 of LD players were ever individually shipped by consumer level carriers. Back in the day they would have been shipped IN ORIGINAL BOXES on trucks to mostly the same country they were built in, Japan. Then the export units, most destined for the US, would have been shipped by sea to CA, then driven by truck to the Chicago area and other distributors. Almost every AV thing was purchased in-person back then so when the stores got them they just handed the player, still in the original box, to the customer...who often payed as much as $2000 in 1990 for the player, who naturally drove it home very carefully. He then installed it into his system, where it stayed...until...death...and the eventual estate sale or relative sell-off.

Techmoan makes a video, some dude needs an itch scratched, player gets thrown in a box with some bubble packs, sells for $99, arrives broken, gets dumped in the e-waste bin at work, actual LD fans weep because they could have continued the 1990 dream for many years to come. In the end only Youtube wins. I'm sure at this point they've made more money from other people's bad videos about LD than Pioneer did actually making it.
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 Post subject: Re: Why are you still watching LDs?
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2021, 18:58 
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gypsy wrote:

I just love when that happens. All the advice is "buy within driving distance" and then said advice is ignored and they keep buying more players to arrive broken.



That is the single most greatest advice when it comes to buying players; never ship it. :thumbup:

I've never had a bad player because of it.
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 Post subject: Re: Why are you still watching LDs?
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2021, 19:14 
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Guilty as charged re: having players shipped. I did so with my first and only player, got lucky, learned better since and won't do the same if my player breaks down. And yes, I'm too young for this, I work in tech, and I spend more money than makes sense on stupid hobbies. But if I can reassure anyone that the player isn't totally wasted on me, I started collecting video games older or about as old as I am ten years ago and am still going strong, so I have some track record of providing a welcome long-term home for media that I got into late. And I don't go around evangelizing to other late-millennials about how they should totally get into this laserdisc thing, because I try to be a private idiot instead of a public one.

But here's the thing: if you can name reasons why your old thing was better than my new thing, like awesome covers, more theater-accurate sound mixes, cuts of important movies that are no longer available, sorry but in my book that makes it fair game. Especially the covers; I have a big chip on my shoulder about how I was born late enough to reach adulthood when the war on physical media was in full swing and having nice, browsable shelves became something you had to go out of your way for. Suffice to say, I love having my NGE LDs and this gorgeous boxset for the CAV Macross: DYRL release around and someone else can have them when I'm dead.

While I'm here and we're mad at these whippersnappers harming the remaining equipment supply, here's a newb question that I'm sure has been asked: Has anyone looked into the possibility of building a new player? Finding a way to source/recreate all the necessary parts without having to cannibalize old players? Making an FPGA fork of that domesday/ld-decode project to handle the raw signal? HDMI output? This isn't something my skillset overlaps with, but you've obviously got some smart engineers here. Better to light a candle than curse the darkness, right? I'm expecting an external soundcard with an optical input in the mail today that I hope to make digital backups of AC3/DTS/PCM bitstreams with. And I signed up here because I saw gaps in the database for discs that I'd picked up and enjoyed.

Tl;dr: Sorry we suck, but some of us are trying.
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 Post subject: Re: Why are you still watching LDs?
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2021, 20:00 
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I'd say the majority of people I sell players to are new to the format. I do not ship.

I welcome the new people, but this reckless shipping needs to stop. Even if your unit arrives "working", what wear and tear has it endured from shipping that you are not aware of? Small cracks in plastic, etc. Was it knocked out of alignment just enough so that it is 80% of the picture quality that it was before shipping? At the very least if you are going to ship something, buy a refurbished unit from Kurtis since knows how to ship these.
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 Post subject: Re: Why are you still watching LDs?
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2021, 20:10 
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ldfan wrote:
gypsy wrote:

I just love when that happens. All the advice is "buy within driving distance" and then said advice is ignored and they keep buying more players to arrive broken.



That is the single most greatest advice when it comes to buying players; never ship it. :thumbup:

I've never had a bad player because of it.


Yep. Looking inside a player made me never even consider shipping. Way too many moving parts.

If lil old me located in Kansas can source 4 players I'd say it is pretty much not necessary to ship. I think the only tier that requires shipping is X9/X0 type stuff. I ended up with quite a range of players: CLD-2080, Proscan PSLD46, CLD-D504 and LD-S1. The only one I would consider low end on average is the 2080. The others while not ultra top tier are still quite nice with many features.

@rcarlson: I would have an eye out for a working back-up (or potentially upgrade, idk your player) locally. If you've got a lot of LDs you like watching, one player isn't enough imo. GL.

@cplusplus: I don't even like shipping video game consoles anymore. Even those often arrive dinged up or damaged when packed very well let alone packed poorly. LD players are much more complex and larger.
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 Post subject: Re: Why are you still watching LDs?
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2021, 20:20 
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rcarlson wrote:
Guilty as charged re: having players shipped. I did so with my first and only player, got lucky, learned better since and won't do the same if my player breaks down. And yes, I'm too young for this, I work in tech, and I spend more money than makes sense on stupid hobbies. But if I can reassure anyone that the player isn't totally wasted on me, I started collecting video games older or about as old as I am ten years ago and am still going strong, so I have some track record of providing a welcome long-term home for media that I got into late. And I don't go around evangelizing to other late-millennials about how they should totally get into this laserdisc thing, because I try to be a private idiot instead of a public one.

But here's the thing: if you can name reasons why your old thing was better than my new thing, like awesome covers, more theater-accurate sound mixes, cuts of important movies that are no longer available, sorry but in my book that makes it fair game. Especially the covers; I have a big chip on my shoulder about how I was born late enough to reach adulthood when the war on physical media was in full swing and having nice, browsable shelves became something you had to go out of your way for. Suffice to say, I love having my NGE LDs and this gorgeous boxset for the CAV Macross: DYRL release around and someone else can have them when I'm dead.

While I'm here and we're mad at these whippersnappers harming the remaining equipment supply, here's a newb question that I'm sure has been asked: Has anyone looked into the possibility of building a new player? Finding a way to source/recreate all the necessary parts without having to cannibalize old players? Making an FPGA fork of that domesday/ld-decode project to handle the raw signal? HDMI output? This isn't something my skillset overlaps with, but you've obviously got some smart engineers here. Better to light a candle than curse the darkness, right? I'm expecting an external soundcard with an optical input in the mail today that I hope to make digital backups of AC3/DTS/PCM bitstreams with. And I signed up here because I saw gaps in the database for discs that I'd picked up and enjoyed.

Tl;dr: Sorry we suck, but some of us are trying.


All of that is fine as long as you don’t own a 3D printer.
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 Post subject: Re: Why are you still watching LDs?
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2021, 21:08 
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I've had pretty good luck with shipping, nearly all have worked fine out of the box (relatively few players are available in my area).

I'm a little out of the norm in that someone gave me an LD player and a few discs in 2006 - I remembered the format but had thought it was too expensive to pursue in the 90s. Around that time you could get lots on ebay for dirt-cheap - a dollar or two per disc even including shipping.

As others have noted, I like the sound quality, art, obscure titles, etc. But as Culturedog says, folks collects all sorts of odd, essentially useless things and nobody questions it. Why question LD? The players are solidly built, they have a compelling mystique and it tickles my fancy to watch something on a 'dead' format that is being lost to the mists of time. . .

PS - it certainly isn't mail-order only; I regularly find LDs locally in the flesh including some fairly rare titles.
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 Post subject: Re: Why are you still watching LDs?
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2021, 21:17 
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gypsy wrote:
If lil old me located in Kansas can source 4 players I'd say it is pretty much not necessary to ship.

Pretty much this. That is the number one thing I hear, something along the lines of "There aren't any players here." I think people are just impatient and need a player "right now!" for some reason.
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 Post subject: Re: Why are you still watching LDs?
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2021, 21:20 
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Also people have no idea what’s going on in their own town anymore.
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 Post subject: Re: Why are you still watching LDs?
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2021, 22:58 
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cplusplus wrote:
Pretty much this. That is the number one thing I hear, something along the lines of "There aren't any players here." I think people are just impatient and need a player "right now!" for some reason.


Totally agree with this. Patience is the biggest thing if you are starting out.

Also, there are actually players everywhere (especially in the US). One just has to check some of the more obscure options like a used electronics store (scored a Mitsubishi, M-V7057 for only about $40 just a few months ago) or even pay attention to Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist for a local listing as players do come up every so often (and good players too).

As for software being only available only mail order, I do admit I still buy a few titles here and there on ebay (and probably paying a tad more than I would prefer) but I also have a bunch of used record shops nearby like a Rasputin or Amoeba that I have found a few gems. My most recent purchase was like five titles for $6. Can't beat that on any count :thumbup:
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 Post subject: Re: Why are you still watching LDs?
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2021, 23:09 
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I still spin up Laserdiscs because I love the process.

The previous posts sum up quite a few insights.
I believe one missing thread is, we are not living in a linear timeline.
Everything in nature, including our stellar bodies revolve in circles, cyclical. Non-linear.

So my main reason for hanging on to my out dated format museum is for hope that one day the factories open again and glorious LaserDisc production commences as before, with the elapsed time in-between being just Hiccup ......

April is a ways off, however that is my mic drop !

Cheers to the membership !
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 Post subject: Re: Why are you still watching LDs?
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2021, 00:30 
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signofzeta wrote:
rcarlson wrote:
Words words words


All of that is fine as long as you don’t own a 3D printer.


Nah, lol, that'd be too big a waste of money, space, and time even for me.
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 Post subject: Re: Why are you still watching LDs?
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2021, 05:27 
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One benefit of getting into Laserdisc was that it got me out of my computer chair with it's endless distractions and into the habit of watching movies on my couch and actually focus on them.

Needless to say, I do not possess a smartphone.
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 Post subject: Re: Why are you still watching LDs?
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2021, 06:46 
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ldfan wrote:
Also, there are actually players everywhere (especially in the US). One just has to check some of the more obscure options like a used electronics store (scored a Mitsubishi, M-V7057 for only about $40 just a few months ago) or even pay attention to Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist for a local listing as players do come up every so often (and good players too).


Maybe availability isn't an issue in the US but for a lot of people in the world I would say it is.
The US has over 300k people.

Indonesia is like 250k or so.
China and India together are probably at least 2.7 billion total.
Now with just those 3 examples and not including smaller countries with local supply issues, you've got 3 billion people that can't go for a drive and pickup a laserdisc player easily.

Over here you can get them but they are thin on the ground. Majority are in state capital cities, which is horrible because I would rather deal with a whole day driving anywhere other than state capitals with all of the issues. Another thing is finding a nice player deal in another state, with restrictions as they are this is a massive problem.
I could probably find a player available in Sydney but that's a ridiculous distance to travel, plus I'm not even sure if I would be allowed to drive there. Even if I could, when I come back I would have to quarantine for 2 friggin weeks.
Even just finding something in Melbourne would be doable but that would probably be a whole day trip, either public transport bs or driving myself I would go crazy :crazy:

So yeah, shipping even though risky, is the easiest option for most people. Then you have to deal with price gougers because of perceived lack of availability locally.


Edit:
That being said, the CLD-D750 I got some time ago didn't cost much. It was shipped interstate but arrived ok, no remote but I found a cheap one later on. Finding high tier units is crazy hard here though and shipping from Japan just isn't anywhere as easy as it was a couple of years ago.

My apologies if I come across as angry in some way, we've had some really hot days here lately and I find the heat difficult to deal with :oops:
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 Post subject: Re: Why are you still watching LDs?
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2021, 09:59 
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deadlegion wrote:
ldfan wrote:
Also, there are actually players everywhere (especially in the US). One just has to check some of the more obscure options like a used electronics store (scored a Mitsubishi, M-V7057 for only about $40 just a few months ago) or even pay attention to Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist for a local listing as players do come up every so often (and good players too).


Maybe availability isn't an issue in the US but for a lot of people in the world I would say it is.



I understand that very well which is why I stated "especially in the US".

We are definitely lucky here since the format may still not have done that well in its heyday but it was still the 2nd best market in the world behind Japan.

Anyway, no apology necessary and hope things get cooler @ some point down under :cry: .
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 Post subject: Re: Why are you still watching LDs?
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2021, 05:20 
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I still watch my LDs because, for me, they are the best way to watch a movie at home. With my home setup, they look great and sound great. Also, they are the easiest format to use; no stupid "interactive" menu system to navigate. You press play and your movie begins. You can even fast forward through the anti-piracy warnings and not be forced to watch them or those blasted studio title sequences.

Lastly, I'm a weirdo that actually likes the ritual of having to flip the disc. It gives me and my wife to share our comments on the movie we're watching as well as get up and top up on any refreshments we happen to be enjoying.

I prefer my movies on LaserDiscs!
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