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 Post subject: Why is the audio signal weaker on older discs?
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2021, 15:14 
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So recently i've been having some audio issues.....the Analog Stereo outs (both sets) on BOTH my high end units have gone caput (DVL-909, Elite CLD-59.) I tried different cables, no dice, just seems to be a weak point for whatever reason. I actually use these when not watching movies in AC-3 for normal Dolby Pro-logic surround, or stereo. My newer Sony receiver has only one Coaxial input so i can't also run Digital stereo out unfortunately or i'd just do that. So needless to say both these units are out of commission while i wait to get them repaired locally (about done with shipping LD players, they just get smashed by the shipping companies.)

SO--in the meantime i'm experimenting with various back-up players and finding it difficult to find quality audio. For example, i hooked up a CLD-M403, which i figured might be a little better than my CLD S-201, and it plays CD's loudly and crystal clear, and newer discs sound fine, but many older discs sound very quiet, and i have to turn my receiver way up, and you can hear buzzing and other issues when this is done. Why is this? Did older LD's have lower analog audio quality, or am i just not adjusting my receiver correctly for Mono discs?

I try to watch my movies in Dolby Pro logic, which requires stereo, but clearly if that doesn't sound right the disc is in Mono? I was watching Caddyshack (https://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/43342/2005/Caddyshack) last night, and i put it in "all-channel stereo" which is supposed to be all five channels, and the front right channel was missing. So maybe i need to be doing manual override to Mono to get better/louder sound out of the discs i'm having problems with. My receiver is a Sony STR-DN1080, so i'm not sure I can even select Mono. It's either Stereo, AFD, or Multi-channel, and i think AFD defaults to Stereo, how best to get around this? Should I select only the left audio track or right maybe to force multi channel mono through the receiver? I did mess around with that but it didn't seem to make a difference.

I was also noticing when i hit a button on the remote i can turn the Red "Digital Sound" box off and on on the CLD-M403. Whats the point of this, the unit has only analog outs? Bit of a long rambling post but thank you for any insights that help me get better sound quality while i get my main units repaired.
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 Post subject: Re: Why is the audio signal weaker on older discs?
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2021, 16:19 
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Older recordings have less dynamic range, analog LD has less dynamic range than Digital LD, the analog track is almost always quieter than the Digital one but not usually to a flaw.

If you watch mono movies in Pro Logic you will get all Center channel. I watch mono stuff in stereo or (in my case) five channel stereo. which just puts the exact same signal in every channel.

rick_dangerous wrote:

I try to watch my movies in Dolby Pro logic, which requires stereo, but clearly if that doesn't sound right the disc is in Mono? I was watching Caddyshack (https://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/43342/2005/Caddyshack) last night, and i put it in "all-channel stereo" which is supposed to be all five channels, and the front right channel was missing.


I can't think of any scenario where just the RF would drop out other than defective equipment or something not being hooked up right.
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 Post subject: Re: Why is the audio signal weaker on older discs?
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2021, 16:34 
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rick_dangerous wrote:
So recently i've been having some audio issues.....the Analog Stereo outs (both sets) on BOTH my high end units have gone caput (DVL-909, Elite CLD-59.) I tried different cables, no dice, just seems to be a weak point for whatever reason.


Are your RCA cables excessive tight and if so do you "twist" them when trying to remove or insert them on the audio output jacks? If so, you could have twisted the jacks off of the PC board and thus broke the connections. This was a somewhat common issue back in the day when Monster Cable (and possibly other manufacturers) made some excessively tight RCA connectors w/ the turbine design. When I insert or remove RCA jacks, I never apply a twisting motion.


rick_dangerous wrote:
SO--in the meantime i'm experimenting with various back-up players and finding it difficult to find quality audio. For example, i hooked up a CLD-M403, which i figured might be a little better than my CLD S-201, and it plays CD's loudly and crystal clear, and newer discs sound fine, but many older discs sound very quiet, and i have to turn my receiver way up, and you can hear buzzing and other issues when this is done. Why is this? Did older LD's have lower analog audio quality, or am i just not adjusting my receiver correctly for Mono discs?


I have never had this issue before on any player or disc combination I have played. Can you provide specifics on the disc(s) that have lower volume. Also, can you be specific if these discs are "analog only" or "digital/analog" discs?

The buzzing sound could be a poor ground. Are your RCA jacks fully inserted into their respective plugs?



rick_dangerous wrote:
I try to watch my movies in Dolby Pro logic, which requires stereo, but clearly if that doesn't sound right the disc is in Mono? I was watching Caddyshack (https://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/43342/2005/Caddyshack) last night, and i put it in "all-channel stereo" which is supposed to be all five channels, and the front right channel was missing.


First, the movie is mono but would have the same soundtrack encoded on both the left and right audio tracks. So, you should have sound on the right channel unless your right analog audio output is not making a good connection to your AV Receiver. If you are using the digital output, the receiver should here both channels.

Second, don't use those ridiculous "five channel" stereo modes. These sound effects options are just gimmicks. If the movie was intended to be in mono, that's way it should be heard. For me, I just turn off Pro-Logic and just listen in stereo mode.



rick_dangerous wrote:
So maybe i need to be doing manual override to Mono to get better/louder sound out of the discs i'm having problems with. My receiver is a Sony STR-DN1080, so i'm not sure I can even select Mono. It's either Stereo, AFD, or Multi-channel, and i think AFD defaults to Stereo, how best to get around this? Should I select only the left audio track or right maybe to force multi channel mono through the receiver? I did mess around with that but it didn't seem to make a difference.


As a test, you can use the "audio" button on the LD remote to choose between "stereo", "left", and "right" to see if that makes any difference. This will also help you evaluate if your right analog audio output jack could be bad in respect to what you mentioned about not having any sound on the right output.


rick_dangerous wrote:
I was also noticing when i hit a button on the remote i can turn the Red "Digital Sound" box off and on on the CLD-M403. Whats the point of this, the unit has only analog outs?


It appears that you don't realize that the analog left and right output jacks can output both the "digital" and "analog" audio tracks. That is the purpose of the button (and the way we access the commentary tracks that are usually on the analog track). Remember, digital sound does not mean it only comes out of the optical / coaxial digital outs. All LD players that are digital sound capable have "built in D/A converters" so they can process digital sound internally and output from the left and right outs. That is also why you can hear "digital" CD audio from the left and right audio jacks on players that don't have optical / coaxial digital outs.


Last edited by ldfan on 01 Jun 2021, 19:38, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Why is the audio signal weaker on older discs?
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2021, 18:33 
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On my Harmon Kardon the 5 speaker stereo mode lacks any effects, it’s just more speakers. It honestly makes movies a lot easier to hear...
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 Post subject: Re: Why is the audio signal weaker on older discs?
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2021, 20:09 
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Yes i really like the 5 speaker stereo; it sounds just like 2 speaker but louder and better.

I'm just wondering, if I'm getting "Dual Analog Mono" when both tracks are selected, why would sound not come out of all 5 speakers, just 4 with a dead front right channel?

Mono also seems to confuse the new Dolby Digital decoder because sound only comes out of the left channel when i switch to surround on a mono disc.

Going to keep playing around and see what i can come up with.

I did take the cover off my DVL-909 today to look at the Analog audio inputs, nothing was loose, broken, etc. so i have no idea whats up with those. Going to have to keep rotating in various spare machines until i find one that works best i think.
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 Post subject: Re: Why is the audio signal weaker on older discs?
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2021, 20:18 
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rick_dangerous wrote:
Yes i really like the 5 speaker stereo; it sounds just like 2 speaker but louder and better.


Maybe I’ll give it a try when I’m feeling hard of hearing. I’m not exactly getting younger ;).



rick_dangerous wrote:
Mono also seems to confuse the new Dolby Digital decoder because sound only comes out of the left channel when i switch to surround on a mono disc.


Sounds like your right speaker is not connected. Have you tried another source like the radio?


rick_dangerous wrote:
I did take the cover off my DVL-909 today to look at the Analog audio inputs, nothing was loose, broken, etc. so i have no idea whats up with those.


The 909 has (what I believe) is a bottom mounted board so you won’t be able to see any broken solder joints as they would be on the underside. The 59 does have a side mounted board and you can look at the solder pads for the jacks on the green side to see if they could have broken loose. Here is an image of what it could look like.....

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 Post subject: Re: Why is the audio signal weaker on older discs?
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2021, 21:19 
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rick_dangerous wrote:
Yes i really like the 5 speaker stereo; it sounds just like 2 speaker but louder and better.

I'm just wondering, if I'm getting "Dual Analog Mono" when both tracks are selected, why would sound not come out of all 5 speakers, just 4 with a dead front right channel?

Mono also seems to confuse the new Dolby Digital decoder because sound only comes out of the left channel when i switch to surround on a mono disc.

Going to keep playing around and see what i can come up with.

I did take the cover off my DVL-909 today to look at the Analog audio inputs, nothing was loose, broken, etc. so i have no idea whats up with those. Going to have to keep rotating in various spare machines until i find one that works best i think.


When I said, "I can't think of any scenario where just the RF would drop out other than defective equipment or something not being hooked up right.", I meant it. There is no reason that should happen. Something is up with something. Remove the AVR from the equation and verify you have good output from the LD player's RCA jacks. Then make sure all channels with the AVR are correct and in phase, both the interconnects and the speakers. Also, don't select anything on the player, just let it play. Whatever is coming from the analog outs on spin-up will be what you want in almost every case. BTW, digital outputs are overrated on LD players, IMHO and can only add to the confusion in cases like this. Lets stick to the RCA jacks for now.

When AVRs die it can be very confusing...perhaps this is happening, or stupid heavy duty cables have shredded your RCA jacks, or the cables are bad, or maybe you have the speaker cables for Center and RF reversed. Do you have any LDs with channel checks?
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 Post subject: Re: Why is the audio signal weaker on older discs?
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2021, 22:00 
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Good tips all around! I will continue to trouble shoot. Thanks guys.
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 Post subject: Re: Why is the audio signal weaker on older discs?
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2021, 14:44 
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Well the culprit was a (rather dusty) analog switch box. I should have guessed it might be this instead of the same problem with multiple laserdisc machine (doh!)

I was listening to my cassette player and noticed the front right channel was also silent and was like "okay, something is up here" I tested the connection at the AV out point of the box and sure enough the right channel was dead. So i had a spare switchbox downstairs, hooked everything back up and it all sounds great. I've used those boxes over the years because i have a ton of analog devices hooked up and always run out of inputs on any AV receiver i use (especially modern ones, where the analog inputs are down to 1-2). They are pretty simple and i've never had one fail in 10+ years of using them so.....still, should have figured it out earlier.

This thread wasn't a total wasn't though; i learned quite a bit, so thanks again to everyone for your thoughts!
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 Post subject: Re: Why is the audio signal weaker on older discs?
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2021, 15:27 
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Excellent, exactly the sort of thing I was suspecting. I'm glad everything turned out fine, with the cheapest thing in the stack being the failure point. I'm also glad to have my diagnostic ego stroked. Everyone wins.
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 Post subject: Re: Why is the audio signal weaker on older discs?
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2021, 16:59 
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 Post subject: Re: Why is the audio signal weaker on older discs?
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2021, 18:34 
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So I assume the 909 and 59 are okay as well?
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